swiss guards swear their loyalty to the pope every year. this is the area that has been invad invaded, it has been attacked by invaders. so we're seeing another chapter in history that is brand-new, but within those walls we have seen many, many, many moments, difficult 340e789s and great moments. no matter how many trials the church has faced, it's still there. and the best part is, it always looks better for it. so i find while it's a bittersweet moment, i always find that there's a sense of home w hope looking at the frame work of what we're seeing. >> will this in the end be the greatest aspect of pope benedict's legacy, that he has changed potentially of how we look at the papacy, how those cardinals that go into conclave view the papacy in viewing the position that one would hold for life. >> it may be kind of a water

shed, setting a new precedent. but i think one of the things that's important to realize is that even though this decision is so new, and it's so bold and it took so much courage and strength to make the decision, it actually reiterates and confirms a truth about the papacy that we have always held in the catholic church that. the papacy was really an office that was established by jesus christ. it doesn't belong to the man. it's not about the man who's the pope. it's about an office that was established by god in order to bring to help the church have unity and to guide the church throughout the tum multis of history. there's been a lot of tumultuous periods in the history of the church. but by making this statement or making this move, this decision, the pope is reminding us, well, it's not the pope that runs the church. it's really god. we really believe that the pope

is the work of god. and benedict has been reminding us that he -- >> he's also been given remarkably personal insights particularly in the audience about this decision that was made, that when he was chosen back in 2005, he wondered why this was being asked of him. he felt it was a great weight that was being placed on his shoulders and i can tell having gone to both the audience and the mass there in rome on ash wednesday, he looked to me like a man who was so at peace with his decision and he looked like the weight of the world had listen lifted off his shoulders, whatever prayer and consideration he had gone through, this was the right decision for him. and liz, as you have gone through the last several days, was that your impression as

well? >> in the past couple of days he's been ad libbing more, as he never has. he did it yesterday at the audience where he looked out at the crowd and he said, you know, people say the church is declining and i see life in the church, looking at those 150,000 people there to say goodbye. today, nobody expected him to address the cardinals and he gave a speech and that speech had one very pointed message and that was this, that he was pledging his unconditional reverence and obedience to the next pope. he's trying to make it clear that while the church is going to deal with two popes, it's not going to be a division of power. he is going to obey his successor, he is not going to try and meddle. he seems very much at peace to spend the rest of his life in prayer and medication.

he never really wanted to be pope. he wanted to go back to bavaria and read books and write. >> he talked about how hard it was for both of them because they planned to go to back to bavaria as ann said, and they had a house where they were going to live the rest of their life in prayer, and at a time when people at age 78 are looking to slow down, he had the greatest weight of his life, greatest responsibility placed and there he is with a smile and a wave. and about to get on that papal helicopter and make the seven to ten minute flight. >> he's a very thoughtful man in the respect that he has been

active in every one of the great struggles of the church in the last 35, 40 years. and the statement that he has made here is that this is a radical change that i, pope weap benedict am making, that i can no longer do this job and i am sending a message to the cardinals and the cardinal electors that this is a great breach in our tradition. i think it's a little too easy to be sentimental on this occasion and i understand that people that are close to benedict and to john paul ii are -- he has thrown a real wrench in the church and how it's going to move forward and because he is such a clever man in the sense of how he was clever in enforcing the

doctrines of the church which in fact have caused the church an awful lot of trouble, are these cardinals going to interpret some of them, this as a sign that things need to be shaken up in a major way? there's always talk in the conclave before the pope is elected. got the find out exactly what had happened in that conclave and how political and inventive he is. to re-evaluate the role of the church in the modern world. pope benedict has said that the pope, he, his papacy is not

succeeding in the modern world, and something has to be changed and he has made a great act of changing by leaving, some are calling it a secular act, also part of his message today that he is not going to be vod in the politics of what comes next. in the real sense it might be moving for him to say it, i think it went without saying, he was n't going to interfere in this process in any way. and now the helicopter starting to take off for the last time in a very historic moment. >> and the bells are tolling. this is an extraordinary -- the last vivid image i have of those bells tolling is when they tolled upon his election. there is an ongoing joke among people who have sat at a conclave that you can't tell whether the smoke is black or white and we finally got the

news that it was indeed white, first from the vatican -- once again as the blades start to turn, and he will take his lead for the last time, from the vatican and liz, so much history here, i think pointing out, carl was talk about that there is some sentiment here that you obviously would understand. but you also have, this is the longest standing succession, the longest standing election that is known when you have a pope elected, and now we are seeing one stepping down. >> i think what we have here, it's one thing to say that romans are sentimental, but we also are present every single moment of the day around the rock which is st. peter. we see in what voinds in what s something that has been here for

2,000 years, despite internal struggle. this isn't the first time that the church has faced internal struggle. i would say that the history tells us that there have been many popes who have shaken things up. there have been different popes, one gregory xiv who said there would never be a train in the vatican state. we can see it taking off. the people on the rooftop are waving. >> and an a amazing view over rome. there had been some question early on over whether he would perhaps circle vatican city one last time. he appears to be heading straight for castle gandolpho. as we said a seven to ten minute flight, a place where for

hundreds of years we have seen popes go for their summer. but this will be the first couple of months of pope benedict's requirement. it is actually a space that is larger than vatican city itself. when you're on the ground, you see a facade and it doesn't look enormous. but it is a place that he has found particularly comforting in the summer. in fact there is a plaque in the town square and it quotes him from 2011 when he said here i found everything, mountains, a lake and i can even see the sea and good people. and ann, we are expecting some 8,000 people to be waiting for him at castle gandolpho? >> yes, he will be there, and he will make what we are told unscripted remarks and those will be the last remarks of his public life. i think that's one thing that benedict tried to make clear today is that this is the end of

his public life. he is going to lead a different kind of life in a different kind of service to god. and he spoke yesterday when he gave his final public speech, or what we thought was his final public speech. he talked got how the pope haas no privacy. i really thought that that was fascinating, that every single minute of your life as pope is played out on the world stage, you have the burden of all the sins of 1.2 billion catholics around the world and what a heavy burden that is and to relinquish that burden when you are still alive is an extraordinary step. but one thing i wanted to follow up p on, you know, i have seen it change in the attitudes of cardinals in the church. when we were here in 2005, for the death of john paul ii, we had been hearing for years about

child sex abuse. for a long time they thought it was just an american problem that was fuel bid the american media. you have seen a great change in attitude, i think from 2005 to 2013. they know there are problems in the church, they know they must be addressed and you can't just blame it on the media anymore. they have to take responsibility because they are losing particularly in western europe, an the u.s., they are losing the core of their church and they need to get it back and they need to find a man who can communicate to the younger generation, i spoke to cardinal donald whirl yesterday as the archbishop of washington, d.c., who said we need to find someone who can package our message, repackage our message to make it resonate with younger catholics today and that's going to be a big challenge. >> pope benedict has spoken just yesterday about the difficulties. he said there were many good days of sunshine, but stormy waters sometimes as if god were

sleeping and certainly the sex abuse crisis that we -- he's going over the coliseum, that's an extraordinary view. liz, can you see this? >> yes, it's quite a scene, it's quite an amazing thing, leaving the vatican, crossing over the remnants of ancient rome and he'll pass by the cathedral of rome and beyond into the green exterior of the city toward castle st. angelo. >> the helicopter kind of swooped a little bit there as he went over his bishop -- >> people may not know this, but his tight system not just pope or his holiness, but he becomes the bishop of rome when he becomes elected and as liz said

is home church. >> the question is how to deal with the problems we just alluded to and who the cardinals will move forward. they know that this is the great agenda that is going to have to be addressed. which is their internal problems and their relationship, the cardinal's relationship, the priestley relationship to the rest of the world and how that is addressed, the few people that i have been able to talk to who will really talk about the conclave in a meaningful way who are going to be there say to me, anyhow, that there is an elusive kind of shorthand in talking with one another in which they do talk with each other about how they must in the conclave move to address these problems. and at the same time, without talking too much about who the

next pope would be, this idea perhaps of a north american who can relate to younger people, i think there is some feeling that certainly one of the papa belet that will be looked at and certainly get some votes will be the canadian cardinal willette. a north american might be an interesting choice to address these problems. now we see the helicopter getting closer to castle gandolpho, outside the city of rome. there's st. peter behind the helicopter, you can see in the haze. >> even with the haze, it is a stunning view, it is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, a city that he has called home for much of his adult life.

of course he worked inside the vatican for so long before he was elected pope. and they have a monumental decision as every cardinal in every conclave does, but there are some considerations, the difficulties in the church. in terms of modernization, in terms of the sex abuse scandal and in terms of the trove of whether or not the reports on the leaks from the butler should still be made public. there are some cardinals who have suggested that it should be. should he be a younger pope? should he be someone from an area of the world where we are seeing so much growth in the church, from latin america, from africa? father, talk a little bit about the immense decision that these cardinal also have to make as they consider who will replace pope benedict? >> it is an immense decision, as you said, they're already feeling the weight of that decision, they're already praying, they're already asking

for guidance, they're beginning to talk. they have been talking. you have to always consider the two sides of the pope's job, the pope in a sense has to manage his own family, the church itself on the inside. and there is kind of an organizational aspect of that. it's a large organization. but at the same time, he's really a spiritual father. so he needs to be able to inspire, to inspire by his example, to inspire by his word, to inspire by his creativity in finding ways to express the love of god, the message of jesus christ in new and effective ways and he has to be both an organizational leader and a spiritual father, not just for rome, not just for europe, but for the whole world. for the church which is all over the world. so you have those -- the interior management aspect. but you also have the relationship aspect. so to find a man who can combine those things is difficult. and at the same time the pope

has to kind of find ways to express the traditional teachings of the church, the certain teachings won't change, they can't change, they're not -- a pope can't completely change the bible for the gospels, they can't redefine the catechism or human nature, those teachings which the pope upholds the pope is going to have to be create nif in exposing the reasons of those teachings and all those teachings are helping people to achieve true and lasting happiness. and to do that in a world that's more and more secular, in a world that's more and more closed to spiritual things is a real challenge. and it takes a lot of energy and personally i think that's one of the main challenges that i think the pope was alluding to. and he said that he was going to step down because he felt that he no longer has the strength to face those challenges and especially that one. it's a big decision, and they're talking about it and thinking

about it and praying about it and catholics all around the world are praying that the holy spirit does give the cardinals the guidance they need. >> the father raised an interesting point, and you looked at john paul ii who was so masterful of being an actor on the world stage, reaching catholics and non-catholics alike and particularly the relevance of the great contribution of the catholic church, to the world, which is catholic social teaching. which this church is trying to continue to do, to continue the traditions of the catholic social teaching at a time when they're having such difficulty with those aspects of internal roles of the bishops, the cardinals, but especially the priests themselves. how do you perpetuate this great

tradition of the church, in helping the poor, caring for more of the sick, caring for more of the poor than any institution in the world, and at the same time, modernize itself so that it can avoid the problem s, not just deal, but meet head on where the questions of sex abuse and also be relevant to today's world. and this hope, particularly den bikt had problems with that and the next pope is going to have to deal with it. >> we have gotten the last tweet from the pope and it reads, thank you for your love and support. may you also experience the joy that comes from putting christ at the center of your lives. and now the twitter goes silent

from the vatican and it will be up to the new pope to decide whether he wants to take that up. in the meantime, we're getting close to castle gandolpho. we are told that about 8,000 are expected to be in the times square. he's been there several times before, he loves it. it has extraordinarily beautiful gua gardens. it came under the vatican's control in 1596, but -- liz lev, what else can you tell us about the place where pope benedict will spend his first few months as pope emeritus? >> one of the things that the pontiff kl village at castle gandolpho, it's a really big --

for 400 years it has always represented a place of repose and in many ways it's a place for the pope to have much more of an intimate sense of prayer. there's many areas of these gardens with the statue of there are other places where, you know, other popes used to go just to have a little bit of time for horse back riding. it's always represented a place where the pope had that precious privacy that he was speaking out yesterday in the audience. >> he will address members of the diocese there, it's the diocese of albano in the final hours of this pontificate, but he is having an opportunity to look at this area that he loves

so well and has spent so much time. he's going reside in his is -- familial life there. what will a pope emeritus do, do you suppose, father? do you believe that this is, today is the last we will see of him or hear from him? >> that's a great question. i have a feeling -- no one really knows for sure because we really haven't had one in a long time. and the last one really did keep to himself. he was almost in prison in a certain sense, he lived a choicer choice cloistered life. i think he will follow a daily schedule, which is similar to what the monks follow in seminary.

he'll get up, he'll pray, he'll have mass and he'll have time for personal study and reading and he might do some writing and during the day different times of prayer. a -- it's designed to create a space of silence within the soul so it's easier to hear god's voice, it's easier to be in communion with god. and as he does that, i think what he will also be doing is offering his prayers and ouring his own sufferings for the good of the church. everyone who unites their prayers to the sufferings of christ is helping the whole body of christ which is the church. even the elderly and the sick have seemed to be so limited in their ability to further the mission of the church, they're actually active members of the body of christ, offering their sufferings, in union with christ himself who suffered so much, with the saints throughout the centuries so. i have a feeling that's really

going to be his approach, a very regular schedule, time for prayer, time for study. as ann mentioned earlier, even though this is his last public appearance today, when he goes back to private life, it's not really a completely private life as he mentioned yesterday, he's not going to be able to go travel and see things, and go to the museums, no. he is going to be sharing in the cross of christ in a different way, not in the public eye, but his life will still be limited, he will still be loving the church, as he put it and ouring himself for the good of all the people that god loves and wants to bring to heaven. >> what he made clear and did in his last remarks is that he is going to remove himself completely from anything that might be interpreted as continuing to be involved as the governance of the church. and rather as was just said to retire to a con templative life

which is he has always observed even as he's been pope, even as he was head of the congregation for the doctrine of the faith, he's always been contemplative, even though he has been very much on the public stage. >> and though he's been on the public stage, he's been a pope that has not wanted to draw a lot of attention to himself. and although the catholic church that does pomp and circumstance extraordinarily well, we are seeing something very simple here. the helicopter lands, you see the cars that pulling up, but there will only be a small group of people who are planning to meet at the helipad. he's going to be met by the head of the vatican city state. the bishop of ablano will be there as well. that's the american equivalent of the diocese there. the director of the vatican's

villas, this is a huge piece of property, larger than vatican city, there are a number of beautiful buildings there, the mayor of castle gandolpho will be there as well. the local parish priest so he is going to be greeting those folks and there you see him making his way very gingerly down the steps and going through these formal ceremonies, but not in any way opulent indicative of what's such an amazing moment in catholic history. thomas roberts joins me as well now. >> i couldn't be joining a better group of journalists and experts. chris, as you have been talking about, the fact that this is so important, the catholics must

look at this as a world body to see exactly what this means going forward and still no timetable set for the conclave. but it's been an amazing part of history as we all watch. but there is a contingent of the catholic church and has to look at this with a skeptical eye, and why the -- there's the vati leaks scandal where the butler was accused of stealing confidential papers from the pope. the pope commissioned a report on the leaks themselves from three cardinals in the vatican said in a statement on monday the 25th that the pope is the only person who knows it's contents and will make them available only to the next pope. again there's no timetable set for the conclave. father, i want to ask you because as chris was bringing up the role as pope emeritus and what that means, whatever the new pope learns about what the

vatileaks investigation uncovered, maybe that will have the pope emeritus provide answers to whoever takes his place? >> i think he decided to leave the report only to the next pope, because in his judgment, none of us know what's in that report. in pope benedict's judgment, there's enough information, sufficient information for the next pope to deal with whatever issues were uncovered during the investigation. pope benedict is a man who had a lot of experience working in the vatican, he's been in the vatican since 1981 and he understands the ins and outs, and i think information i would imagine, again, as i said, we don't really know what's in it. but if he's leaving it to next pope, he believes there's sufficient information that the next pope will be able to see it and make the decisions that he needs to make. >> because we talk about who is going to be taking the pope

emeritus's place, and we're watching the pope leave there, now going off to castle gandolpho. we wonder who that will be. again no timetable has been set. as we talk about the catholics around the world who have felt betrayed by the catholic sex abuse scandal, and i readily admit that i'm one of those catholics. what does it mean that this pope is stepping aside for someone else to come in to pick up where he left off, not only to deal with what the remnants of the sex abuse scandal is, but also dealing with the larger question that you have proposed about a modern catholic church, where celibate priests will fit into the equation and women will fit into the equation. >> i'm not catholic, somewhat obviously, so i can't address the question as a catholic, but

rather as a journalist and someone who has studied the vatican and lived in rome for a couple of years and studied the papacy and reported on john paul ii and the vatican, but this is an institution that's constantly grappling with its internal problems that now have really put the ship in great danger in a way that it hasn't been, you know, the papacy of john paul ii and the fall of come in addition was a moment of such triumph for the church and almost coincidently with that, we begin to see the difficulties in the underbelly of church practice, both that which is in the theology and that which unfortunately we learned is contrary, not only to the theology, but here we had two popes, john paul ii and benedict

who made the basis of their papacy a struggle with moral relativism, as they called it, that they decried moral relativism, the effects of the modern world in terms of public moralism, with individuals who flouted god's law in their view as well as moral law and it turned out that those within the church had violated moral relativism in a way that could not have been imagined. and if that is what has shaken the church so much, both internally and from the outside, the way people look throughout the world at this institution, it has been stained in a way that it never has been in modern history. >> let me just comment if i can on what exactly we're seeing.

because this is an extraordinary view, one that we very rarely get, few people have seen inside the walls of castle gandolpho, they see the facade from the town itself. there's part of this fortress that overlooks lake albano that was actually developed by john lorenzo bernini under pope alexander vii. it is a triangular shaped swathe of land in the town, it's about as liz mentioned, 135 acres and it also has a working farm, fruits, vegetables, oils, eggs, that provide what his requirement will be like and this is a place where this pope, who is about to step down from the highest profile religious position in the world, the kind of life that he will be leading. we do expect him to come out at

some point on to the villa and make some comments. we have not yet seen what is going on in the town itself, but they expected thousands of people to be there to make this final goodbye to pope benedict. as he makes his way into the villa, which is a very familiar space to him because he has spent his summers there as pope benedict. >> both of the past pope john paul ii and benedict -- the modern papacy has subjected popes to things previous popes never have been, in terms of having to go out into the world, see so many people, never having the kind of -- >> there's the crowd there. >> but this pope love this is place as did his predecessor. and he's going to find real comfort there. and obviously these people love him.

>> one thing to point out, the pope's current butler, is from -- who will reside with the pope during his time here. these are only temporary residents until his residence -- >> there are of course the many, many, many gardeners and people that are required to make the farm run, to take care of the sichlt as we know, benedict xvi is bringing his two personal secretaries with him, there will be also members of the -- a member of the pontiffical household and then there will be the sisters who take care of him. he will have a small, intimate staff in that place until it's time to move on to his next home

within the vatican walls. it's astonishing to see how all of these 8,000 people who come out to say they love him, to say goodbye to this man, as the sun sets on this very, very beautiful day in rome, on the last day of his papacy, it's a really wonderful thing to see from yesterday, the millions of people who are watching right now to say goodbye to a man who has served the church faithfully for the past eight years. >> and the sweeping views that we're seeing of this crowd. it's not unusual for there to be crowds in this square because he does have the audiences there during the summer when he is in residence. usually i would assume, not this big and not holding these kinds of signs. >> it's been lovely to see, even in the city by the way, in rome, usually the day after the elections, we just had elections this week, we had signs from we win, we win signs. all the signs in rome right now

they're gratzi benedicto. saying thank you for these eight years. >> the townspeople of a certain age, liz, still remember some of what happened there when allied troops landed in 1944 and that area, as we're looking at it now, the space ofso muched adulation was actually a war zone. >> pope -- pius the 12. put the villa at the disposition of refugees so that's where many people used the apartments t villas, the rooms of that vatican summer residence to hide and to be hidden from the nazis who had occupied the city of rome and the papal bedroom was

reserved in particular for a birthing room, for pregnant women. and apparently 40 babies were born in castle gandolpho, and their names are for the name at pius xxii who put that room at their disposal. >> how has the italian press and the italian people responded to what this means going forward for the catholic church? >> well, the italians have been, i think our coverage has been a little bit divided because we have been right in the middle of these elections, but it's amazing how much precedence we have given to this question of papal abdication, the italians, particularly is romans have developed a system of excitement. there's a very interesting palpable excitement. we have a certain bittersweetness. i think perhaps because we thrive on turbulence in this country, the idea that we're

stepping into something new, something somewhere creativity is charting the course, i have been feeling the city very electric and kind of excited with anticipation. >> as we have been watching these beautiful aerial shots, you were just recently there, you walked these grounds. >> i was there a few weeks ago, i was there immediately after the the pope made his decision that he was going to step down. and the many visits i have made to rome, i had never gone to castle gandolpho, and it is this gorgeous hill top town, and there you see the outside facade and the balcony where he will come out. and there you see the pope make his way through the villa and it's a place that thrivers on having him there in the summer, they feel an extraordinary affection for him. he is a resident of that town, he has made it clear how much he loves it. it's one of the reasons he wanted to go there. and we are expecting some

unscripted remarks from pope benedict and the cheer from the crowd, let us listen. >> this is the last time the pope will be scene from the balcony. again, he does regular audiences there when he is in summer residence and they are often crowds of thousands. but let's listen and see if we get some comments from the pope.

>> thank you very much for your friendship. thank you very much. this day brings me great joy. i am just a pilgrim in this pilgrimage.

with my heart, with my prayer, with fine reflection, with all my internal power, to serve god. and i feel very fortunate, let's keep going forward. thank you, my heartful thanks. with my entire heart, and my blessing, i impart my blessing in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit. thank you, good evening. thank you. everybody.

>> it is 5:40 in the afternoon in italy and this is the last time we expect to see pope benedict xvi as pope. at 2:00 this afternoon eastern time, he will become pope emeritus. the swiss guard will leave the grounds there, his security will be provided by the vatican police. and we will officially be in a period where we are waiting for the election of a new pope. at a time when we don't know when the conclave is going to begin. father, let me get your thoughts, as you watch the pope leave the balcony and make his last public appearance. >> well, i think my first thought was as you were watching the people who are kind of there and their expression of their affection, there was one sign which we saw a couple times which said, pope, your humility has made me a better person. we talk about policies, we talk

about theology, but the pope as well is a spiritual father. and pope benedict has really given us an example of many virtues of humility, of sincerity, of course no one is perfect but he's inspired thousands and the whole catholic family in many ways. as was commented on earlier, as we see the pope for the last time, we're not going to see him in any public -- as pope, publicly again. you can't help but think about who's going to be the next pope. there might be a zadanger that think if we get the right guy, we'll be able to change the policies and then we'll be able to eliminate sin in the church. but that's not going to happen. there's always been sin, there's always been scandal, there's always been great pain and hardship. evil is real. but the message of god, and message of god's love, which the pope has really stressed really

these last months, that the reality of god and the reality of healing and mercy even in the most -- is going to be part of pope benedict's legacy, he's laid the ground work by emphasizing those truths and they have given hope to a lot of people and i think they will continue to do so. >> i think there was one word in what the pope said in his fair well in referring to himself as a pilgrim. >> and as the father was just saying that his message in leaving the papacy is the ultimate message, i believe of that pilgrimage. that there is something insurmountable that his pilgrimage, at this point could no longer deal with. and that he is moving on to a new phase in that pilgrimage,

prayer, reflection, praying for the church, praying for the people of the world and leaving to others how to deal with that which alluded him and his spr d predecessors and how he leave thachlts and i think he's done it in a very delicate and effective way. >> and humble way, you can not ignore the humility involved in acceding that much power. >> and going back to pope ben zikt who has always been contemplative, who has always been immersed in prayer, as all cardinals presume to be. but here we have him on the stage as we have never seen him, as we have never seen a moment in the church. quite like this one. and he is trying to, i believe, and from those i have talked to

and who are in rome now, that he has tried in this pilgrimage to lay a ground work for moving as smoothly as possible into this next phase that can deal peacefully and effectively with that which he was unable to resolve. >> we just heard the brief remarks from the pope there at castle gandolpho thanking themselves for their friendship and leaving everyone with a blessing. claudio, can you explain, and try to tell us about the energy that is there for the thousands of people that have gathered to see benedict for one last time? >> reporter: well, as you can see, the people have started to move away from the square now, it was a very short and somber message by the pope. there was very much in line and suited with his character and personality. the pope has always kept a low profile and has done the same at the end of his pontificate,

instead of going out with a big sure are, he said let's keep working for the common good. people here have been standing here for hours now, praying and waiting. you may think that some of them may be disappointed that it was that short, but all you can see around here are just smiles. these are people that know that they lived a historic moment and they keep it for the rest of their lives. >> claudio, thank you very much. father, i want to go back to you, because you made the mention of knowing that whoever comes next, there is no such thing as a perfect pope and with so much to be done moving forward, what it means for the 1.2 billion catholics around the world and a statement that benedict made saying that good and bad fish get in the lord's

net. what are the qualities that you say are necessary and needed for the next pope moving forward? >> yeah, that's a great question. by the way, the quote about the good and bad fish in the net, that's actually from the bible and it's one of the parables that jesus used to describe his pilgrimage for the church. one of the main messages that pope benedict has made by stepping down is that a pope in today's world needs to be an ennever jettic person. they need physical strength, mental energy and everything that's going on, the pope is in direct contact with so many problems and so many issues and so many opportunities around the world so. i think you want someone who's strong and vigorous and probably not close to 80, i think that would probably be an important, i think that's one of the messages pope benedict is telling us.

and you need someone who understands two things very well. understands first of all, the power of the message of jesus christ, really believes in it, really believes that it is always relevant and it can always transform lives, it can always renew and also someone who understands the vocabulary of today's world. which is not an easy thing, because the world is a big place. but i think in a certain sense it may be getting easier, precisely because the means of mass communication and the digital world, we're beginning to speak a more common language throughout the world. so the new pope would need to understand the vocabulary of that language, so as to be able to communicate the message himself and also to be able to encourage the bishops and the missionaries and the priests to communicate the message of god's love more and more effectively to a world that is very different today to society that is very different than it is 100 years ago.

>> thank you for joining us on this very momentous day, the coverage of the requirement of pope benedict. coming up at 2:00 p.m. our time, we will know that the transition is complete, that's when the papal body guards will leave and the vatican will take over security. we'll have much more right after this. ♪ no two people have the same financial goals. pnc works with you to understand yours and help plan for your retirement. visit a branch or call now for your personal retirement review. [ cash register dings ] [ male announcer ] wow. a brave choice.

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it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, changes in eye sight including blurry vision, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or skin sores from diabetes. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, and swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who've had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. to hear more of terry's story, visit lyrica.com. but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is,

nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! ♪ shimmy, shimmy chocolate. ♪ shimmy, shimmy chocolate. ♪ we, we chocolate cross over. ♪ yeah, we chocolate cross over. ♪ [ male announcer ] introducing fiber one 80 calorie chocolate cereal. ♪ chocolate. welcome back. we turn our attention to politics now. just one day after the vote on the voting rights act. congressional members on both sides are getting ready to participate in a pilgrimage in alabama. house majority leader eric cantor will joan his leagues and civil rights icon john lewis this weekend. they will visit sites of the famous selma to montgomery march that grew out of the voting rights movement.

later that year through the nonviolent work of dr. martin luther king jr. lyndon b. johnson signed the voting rights act of 1965, and a key provision of the all too important law is in jeopardy now. with me is the reverend al sharpton, host of politics nation here on msnbc, plus -- as well as martin luther king iii, president and ceo of martin luther king injury, center for nonviolence, social change. gentlemen, it's great to have you here. mr. king, i want to start with you. both you and the reverend were many the courtroom yesterday, and tom goldstein said that a majority of the court seems committed to invalidating sections -- or invalidating section 5 of the voting rights act and requiring congress to revisit the formula for requiring preclearance of voting changes. the vote seems quite likely to be five to four." again, according to the blog. with the exception of justice scalia's very bold challenge to renewing the voting rights act as a per pet rags of racial entitlement, do you get any indication that section 5 of the voting rights act won't be in

jeopardy by the end of the summer? >> you know, it's very difficult to tell, but being in that courtroom as if that section is in jeopardy. you just never know. one would not want to forecast. no one can forecast what the court of -- the highest corporate in our land is going to doshg but i think at the end of the day it's incumbent upon the people of our nation as well as congress to always insure that everyone is able to participate in this process that my dad and so many others gave their lives for to insure that every person would have the right to be able to vote, be able to register. we should be making it easier to vote. not more difficult. some of the things that are on the books today seem to make it more difficult for people to vote. >> reverend, we know you had a very passionate day yesterday outside of the supreme court, and certainly a passionate show last night, but what is your take on chief justice john roberts and his interesting

dynamic with his interpretation of what section five would mean? >> well, i think that it is a clear threat when you have the chief judge saying what he said. the fact of the matter is we're not talking about a problem of 45 years ago. we're talking about just in the very last election a few months ago saw all kind of voter suppression that disproportionately impacted blacks. ending early voting in areas around the country where blacks were the majority that autos the early voting. going to the polls, stopping the use of regular id requiring government id. any number of studies showed the racial imbalance there, so this is why you need section five to continue in the voting rights act. if it had not been for that section, the justice department couldn't have come in and

stopped those changes of voting in texas and in georgia, so to be -- the defense that we heard, martin and i as we sat in that courtroom yesterday, was that we're not the only ones that have a bad pattern of this too. well, that's like saying, yeah, i may be a thief and others are stealing, so, therefore, i shouldn't be in court. that's absurd to me. i think that we need to keep voting rights when we see justice scalia saying this is a perpetuation of racial entitlement. like we are some entitlement program to vote rather than full citizens. i think scalia's statement alone shows the attitude that we have among some in this country which is why we still need the protection of the voting rights act. sdroo. >> gentlemen, thanks so much. i apologize for our abelievated time today. we'll see you later on "politics nation. owe ". >> you'll see martin and i in selma on sunday. >> that's going to wrap things up for me this hour. i appreciate all of you joining

us. i'll be back here tomorrow at 11:00 a.m., but don't go away, now with alex wagner is coming up next. ♪ [ female announcer ] from tracking the bus. ♪ to tracking field conditions. ♪ wireless is limitless. ♪ that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay.